Welcome back to Women of Tech

It’s been roughly four years since we posted our last new interview with a woman in tech, it feels fitting on this occasion to dive back into the project with the person behind the project.

For the purpose of this interview, someone else asked the questions and took the time to transcribe the audio recording of the interview (grateful!)

‘Nicole’ – not her real name, has been in and around the tech space professionally for nearly a decade, chances are one or two of you may have crossed paths with her non-alias self through what she called her ‘vanilla job’ in the IT recruitment space (not a recruiter, its ok chill).

What first sparked your interest in tech?

I don’t know I was maybe around 8 or 9. My Uncle and his dad were WAY ahead of the curve with computers. they both had computers and a lot of different tech in their houses and other places way back in the early 90’s. I spent a lot of time with them as a kid, being quiet and observing I guess.

My grandad gifted me my first computer, I couldn’t tell you what it was but it was this massive bulky thing with a screen monitor like over a foot deep [giggles], when I was around 11 maybe.

Which was funny because we didn’t have dial up internet at my mum’s house till a few years later so it was just a stand alone isolated machine for a real long while but I had near daily access to the internet from either my grandad or my uncles house from maybe 2001, that was maybe a mistake, I still don’t know yet.

As a now adult looking back no nine year old girl should have had unsupervised access to the internet back then, and especially definitely not now these days.

I didn’t at all understand till some years later though maybe when I was around 12/13 what code really was, like you just see stuff working on the screen, I didn’t question that at all.

it was only really because of a old converted bus that used to come to a nearby village to my mums house as a social club thing one evening a week – because there was nothing there for kids to do around there – they had guy on the bus that was teaching HTML and CSS.

He was cool man, its like 20-ish years later now and that dudes patience with us still sticks with me oh my god.

Beyond that and messing around on Myspace or building the occasional terrible website I never really did much with it other than messing around, like, at school it was never an option, we would mess around with the computers in the library and the ‘tech suite’ (over rated title by the way), but they never told us back then you could go and do jobs in this stuff, certainly as a girl like absolutely not.

Do you code?

I would say I am better at understanding some code than being able to write code, I don’t know if that makes sense. Its not my jam, my brain isn’t wired for coding but I understand it enough to do the things I want to do or need to do, yeah.

Python, C++, Java I’d say I probably understand the most out of the various languages there are but I am by no means an expert in any of those and I don’t claim to be at all.

I’m literally constantly learning and seeing new to me things and going ‘ooo’.

You went to college?

Yes and no, I left school at technically 15, I was 16 at the end of the summer I finished school. I went straight to work, my upbringing was a bit different to the norm, you grew up fast in our environment because of the things and the people you were around. From a very young age I was around things and people that [pauses] I don’t know how to say it so I wont, from a young age that most kids just weren’t around, but it was my normal, I never realised how slightly different or even abnormal our world and way of life was till I hit my teens maybe.

I did go back to college part time when I was 19, studied Law, Politics and Media, was really quickly reminded of my disdain for the bureaucracy of the education system so I dropped out after 1 year and went back to work full time. I was interested in understanding law but not necessarily for qualification purposes.

During the covid era I did go back to school again, university even, walked away from there with a First Class BA degree in Business Management.

How did you end up working in tech?

Until more recently I’d spent most of the last decade working in the IT recruitment space as Head of Operations & Compliance for a specialist consultancy operating internationally but mostly in the UK and Europe, which just day to day doing that job for so long gave me a huge amount of insights into so many things, when you think of the volume of clients we were working with and their products or services, projects, the roles they were hiring for, tech stacks they used, ways of doing things, and really getting to know them and how they were achieving their deliverables, it gives you a lot to like absorb and oversight of all the different layers if you will of the tech space. And to understand all that you do your research to understand all the stacks, products, all of it because otherwise you sound like an idiot.

[long Pause]

There’s another side to this as well I suppose.

I suppose what sparked my personal interest in the cyber security side of things, in particular the offensive security side of things – which quickly became a hobby and almost an obsession around my job – was in large part from being stalked by an ex-partner for nearly three years after I ended the relationship with him, like intensely and aggressively.

When it became apparent through all that happening that spyware was on my devices, *that was what really sparked my interest in cyber security, to understand it to know how to better defend and it just completely spiralled from there. Its fascinating to me the layers and complexities to it.

I can’t explain what it like, to have it hit you that the person choosing to put you through a tremendous level of mental pressure and stress for nearly two years by that point, could see all the comms I’d sent family, friends going back months saying how much in great detail it was crushing me the intensity of what he was putting through, he could see everything every word in every message, every picture, every email, me saying explicitly in what I thought was private to people I trusted how what he was doing was making me feel crazy and ill, like I ended up in hospital twice because I stopped eating from the stress of it all and my just body started shutting down on me, i was not in a good place.

he could see all of that, and he upped the anti, every time, still sending me messages through multiple means daily about how he want everything to work out and he still loves me, and that was the person I’d slept next to for a couple of years, like, that’s a head fuck and a half to wrap your head around. That whole experience, it has shaped a lot since then for me in a lot of ways.

But, Ultimately, everything has also led me to where I am now, which is somehow Director of a small but punchy cyber security consultancy firm.

That’s quite a feat, to have made it to Head of something at your age and now your own firm, all the responsibilities involved

I look younger than I am, I’m blessed in that regard. But it was just graft mostly. That’s not to say I didn’t go out partying in my early twenties because I most certainly did but I still put in the hours and the work and in that opportunities presented themselves which I ran with.

Would you say that you chose a career in tech?

Not really, in a lot of senses no, life is unusual right, it can lead you to places you didn’t think you’d be, I feel like I stumbled into a lot of things, but also pursued things that were interesting to me, and sometimes the two cross over and that is often where luck has prevailed.

In some ways I saw myself in the IT recruitment space for many more years to come, like that was my jam, I know the compliance aspect of that industry and the facets to it inside out, a sudden unexpected redundancy due to organisational cost saving exercise was what pushed me to sort of go, ok, here’s an opportunity to combine the near decade of the borderline psychopathic corporate experience you have with your interests, try and make something of that, carve out a niche in the industry, and here we are.

Are there any particular moments in relation to your career in tech that you’re proud of?

Ehhhh, I’m not very good at talking about myself in that context. I don’t know. I like giving back, over the years I’ve put a lot of time and energy into engaging with younger people through schools and colleges because its important to nurture young talent to have a talent pipeline that meets demand in the future, or we’re shooting ourselves in the foot, and I think some kids these days in current culture where parents aren’t really parenting, just sometimes need one person to see something in them and give them a bit of friendly encouragement and support and that goes such a long way.

I’ve had it once with a college kid when they’d reached work age and they’d started at an entry level tech job, they sent me a message on LinkedIn, the most nice message just saying thank you for encouraging me and supporting me and how grateful they were for that, that warmed my heart I think it even made me cry a little bit a the time when I read it to be honest, that to me is the stuff I’m proud of I guess.

I keep in touch with some of the kids through LinkedIn and stuff, I wouldn’t say I mentor them at all there’s none of that they’re off doing their own thing, but anytime they reach out with a question or a thought I always take the time to respond because I think that’s important and where I can help them help themselves, I do.

You started the women of tech project back in 2019, tell me a little bit about why

Curiosity mostly, at that time I was just Operations Manager at a different firm, where I’d been for quite some time and I had all this candidate data and it was just wild to me the lack of women represented in the data, I wanted to understand why.

It just kind of went from there really. It was twitter actually, I put a tweet out and it went around the houses and so many women across the field from all over the world got in touch with me wanting to share their experiences of their career and working in tech, so I was just like, ok, made a spreadsheet of their details and started interviewing them one by one. so far Ive spoken to over 100 women, some of their articles are of course published, some are just for my own research I guess, it depended on what was discussed and whether they want it to be published or just wanted to talk to someone, I think. I always let them have the choice in that, women understand the value of research into women a bit perhaps.

The project got put on hold for a while, but I’m really excited actually to be picking it back up.

What do you think employers could be doing more of to encourage women to want to work in the tech industry?

Its really weird to me being on the receiving end of such questions when I am usually the one asking the questions [giggles]. I have a lot I’d like to say in response to this, I need to think for a second about how I can articulate this without breaking any of my contractual terms.

[long pause]

I don’t know how to answer that right now in a way that doesn’t imply things which could be misconstrued or taken out of context, but, I do I have some insights in this area which could be useful so perhaps that’s an article I need to put together another day and post separately when I can. I’m going to write that down now to remind me, actually.

What would you say has been your biggest challenge and how did you overcome that?

Keeping my sanity [giggles] I’m not even joking actually. I don’t think its exclusive just to working in the tech space, every industry makes people sometimes feel like they want to bang their forehead into a wall a few times quite hard, but that has probably actually been my biggest challenge.

I’m ok with being quite real in saying over the years I’ve struggled with various ups and downs internally, and it has been a learning process to force myself sometimes to take time for me, learning when to politely say no, not taking on too much, have respectable boundaries with people, and like its ok to have a day on the sofa or in bed every now and then and just do nothing and to not feel guilty for doing that. Because it reaches a point where you’ll burnout and your body will find a way to make you rest if you don’t, doing it out of choice is better, always.

Like if you’re on annual leave, you’re on annual leave. Don’t answer work calls, don’t check or respond to emails, put your out of office on and go enjoy yourself or just sleep, whatever you want because that’s your time, not theirs!

What advice do you wish that someone had given you at the start of your career?

Don’t take so much “banter” from men in the workplace. That might be controversial but that is how I kind of feel. There’s banter, then there is “banter”, you probably know what I mean.

I have come across some, too many actually, men in my career who I can only describe as misogynists, and they will do and say things with intent and you don’t need to absorb that or take it.

Use your words and stand up for yourself in an articulated way without emotion behind it, because they will latch on to that emotion and use it against you.

No one is going to come and save you, you have to stand up for yourself.

I’d also say follow your interests. There is nothing more soul and mind numbing than spending 40+ hours a week doing something where your heart isn’t in it, it think its so important to do things which actually interest you.

And when you look around, a lot of the people society deems successful, they’re all doing something that interests them that they’re passionate about, it doesn’t matter so much what it is, but that passion is there for them and it pays off in happy points.

You’ll have a lot more fun and probably go further in a career trajectory doing things that are interesting to you and that you’re passionate about, that’s a pattern I noticed as a long time observer from my perch in the recruitment space.

I think as well like, things take time. Be consistent, have discipline where it matters, and appreciate that it takes time for anything to really happen that is worthwhile. You cant go from 1 to 10, its just not like that in the real world.

What would you say is your long term career goal ?

Oh god I have no idea. Privacy and security of information is something that I have been very passionate about for a long time both professionally and on a personal level, way even before the stalking.

I don’t know, I like to think that over the coming years I’ll be able to just contribute some cool stuff to the privacy and infosec spaces in a way that is actually impactful and to me kind of fun to just do, I just don’t know what that looks like yet.

Is there anything you’re not a fan of in the tech sector?

Ask me again in six months when I can speak more freely without contractual limitations [laughs]

Any career tips for other women out there in the tech space?

Ask! I can’t stress this enough. There is so much data that shows women do not ask and I don’t mean this with shade, but you can’t not ask for things then complain about earning less or doing a job you don’t enjoy, its something that personally frustrates me a little bit having had access to the data I have had over the last many years.

Unsure about something? Ask questions, don’t be silent.
Want a pay rise? Ask
Want to be considered for a promotion? Ask
Want a new job? Ask, like apply, so many women don’t apply for jobs for silly reasons really.

I have never felt any shame in asking for more financial compensation when it comes to my work but my Uncle instilled that trait in me from a young age, if you don’t ask you don’t get, so always ask because the worst that’ll happen is they say no, in which case you’re no worse off, but can maybe then make informed decision steps to still achieve what you want but through a different route.

It baffles me honestly, maybe because I am able to view it more subjectively than some people, I don’t know. Men and women are wired so differently in this regard and this is backed by a lot of research I’m not just ranting. Even just the applying for jobs thing, men won’t hesitate as much, they’ll fire that application in to nearly any job that appeals to them, whereas women will typically only apply if they meet circa 60% or more of the stated criteria so don’t apply as often, potentially costing them an opportunity they would have been considered for. Apply for that job! Ask for that pay rise! Line yourself up for promotions. No one is going to just offer you things in the same way as you taking ownership of that, you have to take agency of your career.

Why did you opt for setting up your own consultancy?

It felt like the next logical step to me.

I think I’m in quite a unique position with my professional experience alongside my long standing interests, the nature of the work of some of the clients worked with over the last long time meant that doing what I’ve since coined ‘SecRec’ was a crucial part to the security and integrity of their data and digital assets.

There is a lot going on in the cyber security world at the moment, I think I can offer something which has a benefit to the current landscape which enables me to encompass the professional experience I have with the interests, and maybe build something really cool that also affords me the flexibility I deserve.

In your opinion, what do you think is the biggest deterrent to women succeeding in the workplace?

There is not enough genuine support, I don’t know if that comes down to men and women being wired different and *both sexes perhaps lacking empathy and understanding of the other enough but, things like only offering statutory minimum maternity leave, statutory minimum leave if you’ve lost a child during pregnancy, lack of patience with periods, monthly cycles or menopause, lack of understanding relating returning to work after having given birth to a small human out of their own body, or off the cuff childcare issues, things like that.

You’re not really supporting that woman if you’re giving them the bare minimum that you are legally required to provide. That’s not support.

There is often a mismatch between what is said to draw in female applicants under the guise of being a diversity and equality focussed organisation and what actually transpires, that is something which is massively holding women back, in my humble opinion anyway.

What do you love about the tech space?

The people. Tech seems to attract certain types of minds that enjoy problem solving and they are very fun people to interact with and be around. I honestly wouldn’t want to be anywhere else and I have seen inside most industries through being in IT recruitment for so long, like every industry needed IT workers.

You’re quite active on Twitter these days

I didn’t use Twitter for YEARS, any socials actually. I started lurking on there toward the end of 2024 initially through an old account I took offline, just to look at VX-Underground tweets to be completely honest with you.

I don’t do discord or anything like that so I could only view their updates there. I was really hesitant to engage with online again after the stalking experience and mentally processing the aftermath impact of that on me but i don’t know, I started engaging with some people there and over the last eight months or so a small corner of the tech community has sort of welcomed me and taken me under their wing a little bit.

its been an experience shall we say in itself being a woman online in the current day in age I can tell you that for nothing, but I’ve also enjoyed a lot of the interactions there, I’ve learnt a lot from some of those people this year as well as having lots of laughs around that, I’m grateful for that given how sort of insular my life was for so many years.

Its actually kind of wild to me, like I’ve had interactions with people in the industry through Twitter that I was already aware off and really respect and admire on a professional or technical level and have done from a distance in some cases for a long time then suddenly they know I exist and start following my acct and firing tweets or DM’s at me and I’m just sat there like what is happening right now for real.

I’m just some chick.

I don’t know if I should confess to smoking but whatever, one Sunday afternoon I was sat in the sun in a field smoking a joint, hungover as you like, and my phone goes with a DM notification from VX and my jaw literally dropped I remember that, i was like whaaat, am I too high right now.

How. Why. Did I do something bad? And it was just a nice message from Smelly about something I’d put online months before that wasn’t even tech related plus a cat pic for good measure. It seems silly but it was sort of surreal for little me.

I sort of fell down this path of immersing myself in all things cyber security a) because of the stalking, but also b) looking into the spyware was how I came across VX-Underground, and I got hooked reading the papers and it was stumbling across them that kind of paved the way for some of whats followed since, even just being on Twitter, you know, i was going there too see their updates didn’t post anything for months and months, flash forward to now I have a little group of online friends there. Everything happens for a reason, I really do believe that. Its weird but yeah.

Another guy, Greg, he was CTO at LimeWire back in the days when I used LimeWire a *LOT, young me would be like no way are you chatting with Greg from LimeWire, shut up. I’m in my nerd element I guess, I am but a simple woman really. its just funny to me. All of it is just funny. Just rolling with it I suppose.

Ok, final question – what is your go to desk snack

This might sound weird but anything crunchy, I really like crunchy foods [giggles], crisp fiend mostly, also like savoury things though too pastries not like croissants but the meat filled ones omg

You can find ‘Nicole’ (not her real name) on Twitter: https://x.com/Alph4betSoup